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“Mr. and Mrs.” on the Church Marquee: A Mother and Father’s Ministry Example

An Interview with Byron Klaus

WIM: Dr. Klaus, tell us about your mother’s ministry.

Klaus: Mom grew up on a farm in Nebraska and was credentialed in 1937. She began her work as an evangelist around that area: Nebraska, Colorado, and Wyoming. She held services in a lot of unique places, preaching in mining camps, cattle sale barns — places that sometimes were a little rough for men to go. But she went, ministering to both men and women.

If you go up and down Highway 101 in California, from King City to Santa Barbara, there’s not a city where my mother has not preached. Many times in those days, pastorates weren’t long for whatever reason, and often a church needed a pastor during the winter. Mom would stay after an evangelistic crusade to serve there.

WIM: How did things change for your mom after she married?

Klaus: My mom and dad knew each other in the late 30s, early 40s, because they came from the same background: Germans born in Russia who immigrated here to the U.S. But because of World War II, they didn’t marry until 1946 when my dad was discharged. Then they went to North Dakota to pastor in the German district of the Assemblies of God. A lot of small enclaves of people met in cottage prayer meetings and little lean-to churches — sort of a circuit-riding deal. My parents pastored there for 10 years.

In the three churches they pastored, they were always listed on the marquee as copastors. That was always the way it was. Adjustments were made when they had children. My mom kept those responsibilities. Some years she spent more of her time in music ministry, but she regularly preached as well. Mom and Dad spent 10 years in North Dakota, and then nearly 24 years in Chicago. They transitioned in their retirement years to pastor a small church in Santa Clara, California, where my dad passed away suddenly in 1985.

Mom’s ministry really occurred before my dad’s. The parishioners in the churches they pastored never questioned if she was fully a minister. Granted, family roles during periods of time necessitated that she take on more responsibilities at home. At times my father was more prominent because she took a mother’s role. But even though that was the case, there was never anyone who would have said when my mom preached, “Oh, we’re getting the ‘B’ team.” That would have never been the perception.

WIM: Was there more acceptance of women in ministry in the early years of Assemblies of God history?

Klaus: I think the record would show as much opposition to women in ministry as there might be today for a variety of reasons. But I think that closer to the initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit in our country at the turn of the 20^th century, a greater critical mass of women ministers existed. So in spite of opposition, examples and visible models of women ministers who were a part of the initial fabric of our Fellowship encouraged younger women. Sure, there was opposition, but the sheer fact is so many were called. When people would say, “Women shouldn’t be doing this,” mom’s response was, “God called me. What am I supposed to do? Let people go to hell? In fact, I went places that men were scared to go.” That was her retort.

WIM: What were some of the dynamics in your parents’ ministry marriage?

Klaus: I never perceived competition. In a sense, they had a smoother understanding of what it meant to be a team than even today with all our sophistication of egalitarian thought. Mom was called; dad never doubted that. She understood the role of being a mother and what that meant to her time, yet she did both. There was never any idea of being marginalized. They had an understanding of the times, and yet there wasn’t any talk about the times. They just did it. My dad would have never thought that mother was trying to steal the show. In North Dakota, even in Chicago, dad would be gone as an evangelist for weeks at a time. Mom ran things in his absence. Nobody thought anything about that. The only things deferred to my dad were weddings and funerals. I think that was a part of the times, but it wasn’t because, “She’s not good enough.”

WIM: What impressions did growing up in a home with both parents in ministry make on you?

Klaus: I grew up believing that men and women both had capabilities to preach and to lead. Another image I had as a child was of single women missionaries who gave their lives sacrificially and were the backbone of AG missions in the early years. I always had great respect for them. I can’t ever remember thinking, “Oh, she’s just a woman,” because these women were honored. Gender really wasn’t an issue. It was incidental to the fact.

The thought a woman couldn’t pastor? At 10-years old, I would’ve thought, “You’re crazy.” I grew up hearing my mom preach. I remember as a child when we left North Dakota for about a month as my parents did an evangelistic tour through Michigan and Ohio that dad and mom both preached in those crusades. My concept was that it was normal.

WIM: How does Pentecostal theology impact your view of women in ministry?

Klaus: I saw examples of competent, Spirit-empowered women ministers; that’s the context in which I read biblical texts about women in ministry. I get weary of people trading tit for tat regarding the texts. The bottom line is we have assumptions with which we go into most discussions of the critical texts. I have never heard discussions from the side of “no” that would carry the day. Having said that, I take all of the texts seriously. But for me, I want to look at all of redemptive history, particularly the significance of Pentecost. The fact is Joel’s prophecy is that sons and daughters would both receive the Spirit’s empowerment. This empowerment is unique from the empowerments of the Old Testament which were essentially on leaders such as prophets, priests, and kings — both men and women — but for temporary periods of time. They were for a task. The uniqueness of Pentecost is that there is a permanent indwelling of men and women, young and old, to continue the redemptive purposes of Jesus Christ. When you weigh all of the texts against the considerably significant event of Pentecost that says, “The Spirit is to come upon all flesh,” the continuation of the ministry of Jesus falls on men and women alike. While the Pauline texts are to be taken seriously, to assert that somehow women are limited implies the Spirit is given to women with “parentheses,” or with a clause in small print. I don’t see Joel’s discussion of the Spirit’s empowerment or its fullest expression at the day of Pentecost justifying the small print.

I think the uniqueness of this new day is those you would expect to be preferred in that context — themen and the old — are not the only people who receive the permanent indwelling. It’s women also, and younger people. I think that’s significant. I don’t think Paul’s unique directions trump the day of Pentecost.

I think when Paul talks in Galatians 3:28 about Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female (in an era when certain people were favored), Paul is saying this new covenant acknowledges that though we’re still men and women — and our status in life has certain cultural dimensions to it — in the Kingdom, these distinctions do not separate us from God or give us an inside track to God. I think the day of Pentecost is crucial. It’s the lynchpin. For me, the pouring out of the Spirit on all flesh, on those that culture would say should only get “half a dose,” is the clincher. I can’t get away from the significance of Pentecost. And I can’t get away from the fact during my whole life I have seen quality examples of men and women, husbands and wives, working together as teams, and extraordinary single women. Those are the images in my mind. Are there stereotypes to be overcome? Are there challenges? Yes, but I can’t get away from the biblical texts, and I can’t get away from the images I’ve seen that it can work.

My observation is that those earlier women demonstrated what I think younger women are looking for today. There have always been challenges, but women who felt called and compelled blazed on through. It wasn’t an attitude such as, “I’m going to show you,” but rather, “God called me. What else can I do? People are dying and going to hell.” That was it. I sense that among young women here at AGTS. The feminist thing of the 60s and 70s is not their motivation, and the assumption that they can’t do ministry is foreign. I think twentysomethings today exemplify the same attitude of mom’s generation.

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